Dear Holly,
My problem is I am pregnant, again!! I know, that shouldn't be a problem. The baby certainly isn't, but another pregnancy!! I have delivered 4 beautiful children since 2005. This will mean I'll have 5 children, 6 yrs and under!!!
I am starting the homeschool journey with my oldest. In theory, I am completely committed, in practice, I AM DROWNING!!!! Just when it seems that I am getting there; new baby sleeping at night, body healing, starting to get into a good routine... I am pregnant again, and it all falls apart! I know what to do to make my household/homeschool work, I just don't feel human enough to execute it. The kids spend a good part of the day in front of TV (educational, but still), and I am falling asleep cooking dinner! My husband supports the homeschooling plan, so long as I can manage. But lately he has been dropping hints about the local Catholic school. He is a wonderful help when he is home, but he is a carpenter, and works very hard. So his end of day help doesn't put a dent in the disaster that is our home. PLEASE, I need support, advice, thearpy, something!!!!! HELP!!!!!!
Help With Your Mother's Rule is a forum for women who want trouble-shooting
help with their Mother's Rules or about any aspect of the 5 Ps of
the married vocation.
First of all, congratulations on your new pregnancy. Of all your concerns, your generous openness to life is commendable, very beautiful and very important. However, at the same time, from the sounds of it, your own heart appears to be concerned about how fast babies can come! This too is understandable, many of us have experienced it, and rightfully, we are called to consider our human limitations in being open to life. While fully supporting your present situation,as each child is a gift from God, I will remind you that the Church does permit parents to regulate births naturally using Natural Family Planning, taking into account the concerns the spouses in unity believe need to be considered. Using this method is no slur on the beauty of parenting, but is a responsible participation in God's Creative work, according to Pope John Paul II.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, given the situation you now find yourself in, and which you can rightly consider God's Will for you - 5 children under the age of 6 - you will need to examine very closely what your real responsibilities are, knowing that you are in a very challenging situation, or should I say 'demanding' situation, for young children do demand much of your time and energy. An exact assessment of your real duties will help you avoid extra work and unrealistic expectations.
1. Your key duties would be to have a time for daily prayer. Even a tired husband can help watch children for 20 minutes while you steal away for some quiet meditation. Bedtime spiritual reading, short prayers throughout your day to begin to experience the presence of God. But also , loving your children because God asks you to fosters the ability to meet God 'within' your family, instead of seeing them as drawing you away. Your attentive love IS to love the Christ within them. But for you, you need some quiet too, so ensure that.
2. Next, some time daily with your husband, probably best when the children go to bed.
3. Thirdly, developing as best as possible routines that deal with meals, bedrooms, baths, clothing, and tidy ups. This is one of your main missions and will take much of your time. I say 'routines' as you don't need to follow a clock with precision, but you need 'habits' of "this comes first, then this, then that..." so the kids know what to expect, as closely as possible. Connected to this is loving time with the kids - cuddles, story times, an outside time, walk in the back yard, toy or table craft time... The key - both 'fun' and 'work' activities need to be done 'with' your children as much as possible, praising them for every little way they help you and Daddy in any way.
4. Fourth, institute a quiet time after lunch, for naps or just quiet play. Set up your home so that each child is safe and occupied. You can have a half hour or so to rest, put your feet up and collect yourself, and nursing babies don't interfere with this.
5. Schedule a realistic bedtime that will take into account being woken up in the middle of the night, or really early... you will need more hours.
6. Find ways to get some time out weekly - either by visiting family with your children, or splitting up the children so you take a couple with you while Daddy watches them. See if there is a relative or local trustworthy teen who can help you in-home, afterschool or one day a week.... this can help you catch up with other jobs. Get hubby to assist with a weekly clean. Declutter your home - get rid of everything you don't really need, be minimalist - you'll thank yourself as your home will look cleaner. While this is a time of extreme dedication for a mother with young children, you also still need ways to daily refresh yourself, getting adequate sleep and nutrition, and some space to rest and recuperate. This is too important to ignore. Pray for God to provide the means for these needs to be met.
FYI - I have an article of Activities with Little Ones that may also help, on Holly's Helper's page.
ReplyDelete7. As for homeschooling - Grade 1:
Religion: Everything you tell your Grade 1 child about God , tell your little ones. Avoid textbooks unless they can be used with the whole family. I recommend a craft based following of the liturgical year as a key way to teach. There are ample resources online and in book format.
Reading: 20 minutes a day phonics and a basic reading program.
Math: 20 minutes a day
Science/Social Studies/ Health - do all of this through activities or even educational videos that all your children can participate in. Look for hands-on activities for young children; this will avoid the split between school and non-school children.
Preschool children can do basic skills workbooks - like numbers and letters while you teach the phonics and math. You can group some children with your Gr 1 child and teach them their phonics too. Use math manipulatives and let the youngest ones have theirs too. Put little ones in highchairs beside you while you teach, give them toys on a rotating basis.
8. Get some good books on homeschooling how-to's. Read them now. Think. Try things. Find a mom's group. Contact or locate local homeschoolers. Find a website. Access a discussion group.
VERY IMPORTANT: But remember, to homeschool a child in academics in Gr 1 will only take 1 hour MAXIMUM a day. All the rest of her education comes from her family, religious and home life, relationships, chores, family time, having fun, loving God, being in Mummy's arms.
There is so so much you can do, if you just start with little baby steps. Don't be overwhelmed. Start with the above list in order. Your prayer is your top priority. Your husband, your health. All else will flow. Baby steps.... baby steps.... you can do it!!! How do I know? Because God has called you to it, and where He calls, He empowers!
You have a beautiful vocation!
Congratulations!! Holly has so many great suggestions. The one thing I was thinking of when I read your post is that if you have the means for Catholic school, maybe instead of sending the children to school you could hire a mommy's helper. She could be responsible for whatever you feel would be most helpful: for ex. maybe she could watch the other children while you're homeschooling and do some light cleaning or cooking. It wouldn't have to be everyday or it could be :) I have a friend who did this and it worked wonders for her.
ReplyDeleteI will say a prayer for you and your beautiful family today~ I would also like to thank you for your beautiful witness and trust in God. Your courage is inspiring to me and I am sure many others as well.
Take care,,
Dina
You sound just like me. I too have had four children since 2005(my oldest 5, my youngest 16mo.). However, I'm not pregnant again only because we are using a contraceptive. I commend you on still being able to be open. I'm at a point now where I want to be, but my husband does not. I have thought I was pregnant a couple of times and was so beside myself I couldn't function. I know where your at and I will pray for you. God will give you strengh as he has with your others. I have just begun reading Holly's book and believe it to be so full of enlightenment, truth, and inspiration. Focus on God, your prayers, and I really do believe He will meet you and help you with your routine. I'm on day three and am amayzed at how he is meeting me. I'm only concerned with my perseverance, but I know he will help me with that too. I pray God will bless you in your pregnancy and help you find peace with it.
ReplyDeleteGod Bless,
Debbie
Dear Debbie
ReplyDeleteWhen my fifth child was born, after 9 months of illness, a horrible cesarean experience, and an infected incision for 3 months following, I too experienced a type of fear of having another child that would have made contraception seem very easy to do. It was the first time in my married life that I was tempted to use it.
But I knew that there were serious issues related to it, even in addition to the physical issues that could relate to the pill, and the possibility of the pill actually aborting, not just preventing, a pregnancy. I did not want to be aborting babies unknowingly.
I also believed what the Church teaches - that any form of contraception is an inherent evil in itself, because it works against the purpose of sex in marriage, and that in fact, it harms sexual love from being a sacramental expression - meaning, that it blocks grace in marriage, and that was something I was not eager to foster - I felt my husband and I needed all the supernatural help we can get. As a result, we did not contracept. So I had to find another answer to the fear of pregnancy.
We found that Natural Family Planning was truly adequate for postponing pregnancy.
Additionally, I realized that the issue was not that I should be on birth control, but that I was frightened - that I was not trusting God to care for me.
And I also realized that it was not that I did not want another child, per se, but that another hard pregnancy frightened me. I realized that contraception would not take away this fear - as you have noticed when you thought you were pregnant - but only a renewed and restored trust in God would ease that fear. So, I figured it was my prayer life that had to be increased, and I had to makes acts of faith and hope knowing God, who loves me , would help me.
So while it is perfectly responsible to know it is time to hold off on another pregnancy, HOW we do this is subject to the moral laws based upon the purpose of sex in marriage. Openness to life must remain by not impeding or stopping the natural function.
Instead, with a natural method that does not compromise the purpose of sex, the sex act is not engaged in when the woman is fertile, (about 7-10 days per menstrual cycle) distinguishable through a short education of the woman in detecting her signs.
I would strongly encourage you to study Natural Family Planning, (we did the Billings Method) and make the move to re-consider your decision to contracept, for the sake of your body, your marriage, your spiritual life.
I will pray for you. God is with you.
Holly
Hello all,
ReplyDeleteI too say congrats and thanks for being open to new life. I'm the fifth child of my parents. Now that I have kids of my own and know the challenges that come with parenthood, I often thank my Mom for "continuing on". In the end, they had seven kids. We are all treasured even though life was often hard for my parents. They would never wish any of us away. We are now adults with kids of our own, bringing great blessings and joy to our parents in their old age.
I sometimes wonder if my Mom had been born in our generation, where contraception is the misunderstood norm, I wouldn't have existed - unless my parents had been of the fortunate few who understand (or at least follow) the Church's teaching on the beauty of marital sexuality. As it was, it was unusual for anyone to have that many kids even in the 60's and 70's so who knows, maybe she would have still had a large family.
Please know that modern methods of natural family planning are NOT the rhythm method of old. The rhythm method worked on a calendar basis on the assumption that most women follow a 28 day cycle. Not so. New Natural Family Planning is based on each woman's unique signs of fertility. Billings, which Holly mentioned is one. Two more that I know of are Serena and Creighton.
I know Mom would never wish me away and considers me an exceptional blessings. I've never asked her, but I bet she shared many of your concerns. There was very little money and virtually no support. She suffered from depression altho' as kids we never knew it, she just carried on and loved us and did her best. A real trooper with lots of love to share.
So know that you're not alone. God is blessing you and will help you through these difficult times. As Holly says, trust in the Lord, he will lead you. He loves you with His whole heart and will be there for you through every trial.
Pray that He will lead you to the sources that will help you (like Holly!). My best help came after I went to adoration and literally cried, "Lord, I'm a complete mess. HELP!". And He did.
Holly,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your openness to the Holy Spirit in your life and your book which is giving me a new insight into my vocation. So much of what you have to say I can identify with. The ways in which you overcame make since and give me hope.
I'm not using birth control, but another form of contraception, either way I know it's not right and I do not promote it, but here I am using it. I am familar with NFP, this is what we followed for four years. I feel the affects of our decision and feel convicted about it often. I gave up and gave in because I am scared and was tired of being alone in the decision. I want that beautiful self-giving marriage that is open to Gods perfect plan which I know includes NFP ...I truly want Gods best. But, I feel very alone in this. How do I get my husband on board? He was never involved in the decision to follow NFP in the past...he showed no interest and left it in my hands. I feel it has to be both of us working together, supporting each other, to make it work.
Thank you for your prayer.
Debbie
Dear Debbie
ReplyDeleteThree things:
1. Inform yourself and share with your husband why NFP is 'the good', so that he can desire it - we all choose what we perceive is good. You will assist him by giving him something for his mind to see as worthy.
2. Distinguish with him very clearly that this does not mean you want to get pregnant right now - but that you are just choosing a physically, spiritually and maritally healthier method to make you two the best couple you can be.
3. Pray to God and He will help you be strong. "What Father would refuse his child bread when he is hungry?" said Jesus. You can use confession and counsel from a priest to give you extra grace to help you handle this.
A friend of mine was in your situation, and she did not want to have to act 'by herself' so to speak, but she went ahead and felt that this was an issue too important to compromise on. I think she was right.
Another lady I know had often felt 'alone' in raising her children as Catholics and teaching them their faith and getting them to Mass, etc. As a result, she eventually 'gave in' and gave up doing it 'alone' and her children were raised without the Sacraments and the Eucharist and fed a Sunday morning diet of Hannah Montana...
As Moses said in front of the crowd - "I put before you life or death... choose life!" Yes, Debbie - choose the good you know needs to be done, especially since there is no different practical result, since birth control and NFP both achieve the aim you presently need - to postpone pregnancy. It's just that one is to choose life and the other is not. You can do it!!!
To the original poster, I will pray for you. I, like Holly, would suggest just doing what absolutely needs to be done. I'm still working on THAT, I have the horrible habit of taking on new projects that I can't possibly finish. LOL On top of that, is life with babies, and you can guess my day is pretty chaotic. Again, I will pray for you.
ReplyDeleteDebbie,
You said, "I feel it has to be both of us working together, supporting each other, to make it work." This is indeed ideal. But it doesn't work that way for all of us. My husband has always left it comletely to me, though he does believe NFP is the way to go. Still, the things they suggest for husbands to do to be a support and a real part of practicing NFP, my husband just hasn't seen that to be important. And now his work is preventing any possibility of his being part of practicing NFP. I often feel alone, and have the entire burden of chart interpretation on my own shoulders. But I do it anyway. For us, the saying that NFP improves a marriage is really not true, and that's sad because it is such an easy way for couples to come together. On the other hand, if we had contracepted, I can guarantee you that our marriage would be over by now. So, I guess it has helped us a little! LOL The prayers of a wife for her husband are really all we can do to change the hearts of our husbands. Till then, we must just continue to do what we are supposed to do. And I will pray for you, too! :-)
I have never been exposed to any list of things husbands are 'supposed to do' regarding NFP... I am obviously the one who charts my symptoms. This usually works out into some semblance of pattern. For a few years, out of courtesy for my husband, I had a calendar posted in our closet so he could tell where I was at. That helped him not get too disappointed in the event of fertility if we were trying to postpone pregnancy... And when I was unsure, his patience was appreciated. I have always been grateful that he simply accepted this as our method and was not angry if abstinence interfered with his desires... (unlike some husbands I have heard of... now THAT is lack of support).
ReplyDeleteSo, I do not fully understood the 'alone' issue and am glad I did not read any recommendations that raised my expectations, perhaps unrealistically... I have looked at charting like I look at pregnancy - part of my particular job. I think the husband "supports" the wife just in his acceptance of the method via charting and abstinence, or likewise, charting and trying to achieve pregnancy at certain times; as well as in the discernment process of when to stop using the method as a postponement...
I believe that NFP does in fact improve a marriage, but it is not a magic wand. First off, it prevents the harm of contraception, as the last poster mentioned, but also by the actual fact of maintaining marital morality and hence openness to grace, and as we know, grace if often invisible, but it does not mean it is not there, nor that its effects are non-existent.
I recommend patience with one's husband, accepting him as he is, and doing NFP as an act of love FOR him. This might help avoid feeling like something is wrong, when in fact, it may not be...
Holly,
ReplyDeleteGood conversation on NFP! I learned the "sympto-thermal" method from the Couple to Couple league. They are a wonderful organization, but VERY couple oriented. Since my husband was never involved, not even in the classes, and CCL so highly encourages husband involvement, even in day-to-day observations and charting, I did feel alone. Of course, that is only one tiny part of the big picture. My husband has always talked bigger than he has acted, and at the time I was learning, I believed what he said about being involved, and when he wasn't, well, it was really a huge disappointment. There were other, very much more serious disappointments, that I was confronted with right away as a newlywed, but I won't go into all that. I guess the point is, I learned about CCL's "ideal" for practicing NFP, and God's plan for marriage, and very much wanted that, but there was no way I was going to get that. (7 years later, I now say there's no way it'll EVER happen, but we'll see.) I do think now that people sometimes blame NFP unfairly for their problems in spousal relationship. It's a really easy scapegoat. I know that NFP didn't cause my problems, and like I said earlier, NFP has held together what might have otherwise completely fallen apart by now. But it IS hard to see how NFP has actually improved(???) this relationship. It took a long time for me to accept that I wasn't going to have a "CCL" marriage, though. And I don't think I have yet completely accepted it. So yes, there are still feelings of being alone, but I know it's not just about NFP. So I keep at it. Thank you for your perspective, Holly. I also do hope that at least one person reading this will be encouraged to give NFP a try, or stick it out, even under difficult circumstances. God will always bless our efforts to do his will.
Yes, I agree that we have to be very careful not to blame NFP for other marital issues. But one thing that I think is even more important - to realize that all marriages are a process of learning, (suffering at times) , accepting, giving, forgiving, growing and coming to maturity together. You know, Pope John Paul II said Adam and Eve, even in the state of perfection, would have had to 'work' at a growing unity, because this is a normal 'process' of growth. I think it is important to not blame NFP, not blame our husbands, not blame anything - but to have patience, do our best, give our husbands the benefit of the doubt and have trust that God turns ALL things to good - and that our marriages have rocky but also heavenly times...
ReplyDeleteOne other quick point -as I mentioned above, which also must be taken into account - NFP has significant spiritual benefits to the couple, hidden. like grace, but which nonetheless are always working to bring the couple to complete unity and happiness. We have to be careful that we do not judge the quality of our marriages by the 'emotional' component alone... we can have very good marriages while suffering emotionally at times from not feeling loved or lack of understanding or communication issues... Our marriages are MORE than just emotions, although these are included. Don't be discouraged ladies! Trust God, trust your husbands.
A great little book on this for a mother's group is: MArriage: A Path to Sanctity... a VERY good read
I could care less if my husband helps with charting, that's the least of my concern. I just want him to be on the same team and see the importance of NFP and be patient with me as I learn and as I am infertile. He won't read anything about it to try and understand. He is very persistent even while I am fertile and that is part of the reason are children are so close in age. I know I am responsible for my own actions but i am weak at standing up for myself and give in to easily...I feel bad (silly, I know) and he won't give up, he keeps on and on and on about it. He doesn't want to abstain and has said that if we are to follow NFP than we need to have sex every day I'm not fertile other wise we'll never have sex.
ReplyDeleteI will be talking to him as soon as I get my nerve up and I am resolved to stand firm. I did not understand previously about closing off the grace we receive through being open to life during the marital act. Because of this journey I have just begun, to balance my life (thanks to your book, Holly), I too am not willing to risk cutting off the grace God has for us. I am praying for him and I know that if I do what I'm supposed to do God will do the rest.
I really do appreciate your prayers...Thank you.
Debbie
It is very difficult when our spouse is behaving in a selfish way, and yes, this makes things very difficult for you - I understand. I think you need much support, as yours is not an easy task - to have him actually work against you and pester you . It would be good for you to bring this issue to a local priest and talk with him about ways to approach this issue in your marriage. And yes, also, much prayer. The rosary has a promise attached to it:
ReplyDeleteThey shall receive all they ask of me by the recitation of the rosary."
I would suggest this as your recourse. May God bless you Debbie, and give you strength and peace and conviction.
Hi, Thank you Holly for all of your work! I read your book a few years ago and I am still in the baby-step stages of establishing a rule. Your suggestions to the original post on this page are very helpful as I am in a similar situation- Thank you!
ReplyDeleteI have 6 children. My oldest just turned 8 and my youngest is 4mo. Yes, our life is crazy sometimes and definitely in need of more order :)- that's why I am here reading your blog today! But, after reading these posts it sounds like it would be much harder and more stressful if we used NFP! My husband and I both come from large Catholic families and we have always practiced "Supernatural Family Planning". It makes our life simpler to let go of this area of life and let God be in control, knowing that in His providence He knows far better than we and He has a perfect plan for our lives And that He always gives sufficient grace. This trust gives us great inner peace in the midst of our chaos :)!
I know NFP is allowed by the Church, and I am not saying that it is wrong, or in any way condemning anyone, it just seems that from what I have read that it can cause emotional tension between the spouses. For me, that stress would definitely affect my relationship with my children as well and my ability to meet their emotional needs - which would be the whole reason for trying to space children in the first place!
If your husband is open to a large family, I want to encourage you to trust God knowing that if he blesses you with another child it is His will, and even though it seems impossible right now you are not doing it alone. I know this is not always easy (trust me! :), but He will be with you and He will bless you and your husband. I'll keep all of you in my prayers. please pray for me also!
God bless, Erica
Thank you Erica-
ReplyDeleteFor my husband and I, we only used NFP as a method of postponement for the times following my Cesareans when my body had to heal, especially since my body reacts in idiosyncratic ways to things... After we had discerned that postponement was to be ended, we'd 'go off' NFP and be open to God's timing for the next child - again, as you said, a "supernatural" method indeed.
However, this is not all there is to NFP - a marriage expert I know has always talked about using NFP as a discernment tool for 'achieving' pregnancy as well, by attuning to one's cycle to 'foster' pregnancy. As a result, the couple takes on an active conscious participation in the miracle of procreation, consciously working WITH God to achieve what they have discerned as His Will for their family. No one can say this is a negative - it is really quite a beautiful and responsible participation in one's vocation done in union WITH God.
And so it is in light of both the postponing and achieving actions - where the couple discerns God's Will and consciously acts - that the Church not only permits but recommends NFP. It is a shame if you or anyone walks away from these blogs thinking NFP is a burden.
It is not NFP that is the burden - it is the normal difficulties of marriage or one's attitudes or selfishness of oneself or a spouse or daily troubles that are issues.
As we noted above - the issues discussed are not NFP-caused but stem from other underlying marriage causes. It is important to distinguish between these, as to in any way denigrate NFP is to do a disservice, in my opinion, to a valid and worthy tool for self-control in marriage, and a way to work with God actively, or in JPII's terms, 'responsibly'.
Well said, Holly! :-) I'm not exactly infertile, but due to schedule conflicts and life in general, we NEEDED NFP to achieve our last pregnancy. Thankfully, it was God's will for us to have another beautiful girl. We had previously used NFP to delay pregnancy, before we had kids at all, when we were truck driving over the road. The experience of charting and interpreting the charts to AVOID pregnancy actually gave me the information, experience, and skills I needed years later to ACHIEVE pregnancy.
ReplyDeleteAnother point to consider in certain circumstances is that NFP to postpone pregnancy for a time doesn't have to be all or nothing--if a couple really felt that they would be overwhelmed by another baby, but there wasn't some medical cause making it really imperative to wait, they could abstain more selectively--say for three or four days right around ovulation rather than 7-10. This makes it more likely they'll get pregnant again soon than if they abstained for the full 7-10 days, but on the other hand, most couples are much more fertile in that 3-4 day window (from 2 days before ovulation to the day after) than they are in the longer time frame surrounding those days. So abstaining just in the very most fertile portion of the cycle could at least help, while a couple is working toward getting on the same page as far as NFP. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
ReplyDeleteokay, so what do you do (apart from pray) if you have six children and a husband who is going through some kind of depression type thing and says he will leave you if contraception is not used?
ReplyDeleteI hate contraception with a passion and have refused to use it myself. I compromised only so far as saying he could do whatever he liked in this regard. He (rightly) hates the idea of a vasectomy and he (rightly) doesn't like condoms, although I have put up with him using them. (He basically just wants me to go on the pill, which I refuse to do).
Equally, I hate separation and divorce (except that in the case of violence, a separation is needed for safety). Hence, my compromise.
He has not left us yet, even though we have had far less sex in the past 8 months than was ever the case when we used NFP.
I trust in God, but if He wants to speak to me through anyone here, that would be great.
I am now going to confession very regularly (nominally once a week, although my confessor cannot always be there). I pray and go to Sunday Mass and sometimes during the week and frequently drop in to pray.
I have been very angry with him about all this. He had, until now, been a very reliable and good husband and father, but this has been an extremely difficult time.
What else can be done?
L
You said "I go to Mass" Does he? What is his satus, is he a practicing Catholic? This is a disturbance in his soul. The devil hates our families. He is trying to break up yours in this way. Get holy water in your home. Your prayers should not be about this specific issue, but about his soul itself. You are seeing the part of the iceberg that is sticking out of the water, there is a much deeper problem underneath. Your anger will only feed this fire (understandable as it is). Calm, peace, prayer, sacramentals, get him to church. Get the devil's influence out of the situation and he will be a better husband and father.
ReplyDeleteYes, he is a practicing Catholic, but we have never faced this particular issue before.
ReplyDeleteThanks, that seems like good advice.
God bless.
L
I have two things to share on this last reader's situation.
ReplyDelete1. The Church has a specific teaching that applies directly to this - From the Catechism of Catholic Church #1753:
"A good intention ... does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means."
Thus, a good intention - the 'preservation' of the marriage - does not make the use of birth control good or just, but it remains a disorder and a sin in the marriage. I would assume that a wife's participation in permitting her husband to do this would make her complicit in this sin, and hence morally responsible as well. Important here to remember, the end does not justify the means... The salvation of the marriage is not helped by this...
2. In fact, experience proves this. A woman I know very well was counseled by a priest to go on the pill to save the marriage... So she did. And in the end, the husband left her anyway...
From my perspective, any form of birth control is not a solution to a deeper problem in the husband's psyche or in the marriage - in other words, it's not 'the answer' and permission to use birth control may in fact actually prevent 'the answer' from being realized.
As frightening and devastating as his leaving can be, I am wondering which is a greater evil in the marriage...
And with that, I can only say, talk to your priest for the recommendation of the official Church (not the priest himself...) or find a priest who CAN tell you the best route in the eyes of the Church, who teaches what she does to protect us, and who has a great deal of pastoral experience and wisdom to help us in these nitty gritty situations...
Meanwhile, pray and offer your suffering for this to be resolved properly, and birth control if not the main issue - something in your husband's life or in the marriage is the main issue.
Also - a comment to the reader who advised 'partial' NFP - two things:
ReplyDeleteIf pregnancy needs to be delayed, i don't think partial use of NFP is the answer - it seems to me that playing around with the method is a sure-fire way to have it NOT work...
Secondly, it is not only medical reasons why NFP can be legitimate - it can be for serious financial issues, personal or psychological issues, among other things, and it could be Mummy needs a bit of time to adjust given her other responsibilities. The main criteria, in my understanding, is the couple determines a 'real need' and that this is of a fairly serious nature as opposed to whim or convenience, and that the 'couple' is the party to discern this, which makes it a very personal decision, not open to criticism from others.
Hi, I have five children ages eight years to nine months. We've always homeschooled, so nobody's been to school. This was something we discussed before we ever married.
ReplyDeleteHowever, we have had major communication problems for about eight of the nine years of our marriage. Or, more to the point, we have had communication problems since the very beginning. I just don't measure up to his ideals of a wife. His mother was a wonderful cook, a flawless housekeeper, in short the epitome of housewifely virtue. She did not have as many children nor were they as close together and she did not homeschool.
My husband also has college education looming in front of him and wants our children to get full scholarships -- and not your community college to later enter state university. We're talking full scholarships to really good private conservative Catholic colleges. The pressure is on me big time to produce "good" kids -- quality college prep.
I like to try to cook a lot ahead of time so I can save myself having to cook each night. This is especially important since my sons play baseball in the spring, everyone takes piano and violin and I must supervise the practicing, and our homeschool schedule is very intense. With our small baby it makes things even more tense. He greatly dislikes being served the same thing twice in a row...I hear plenty about how unhealthy it may be to have the same soup for dinner as we had for lunch (on a Saturday) or complaints about how he doesn't like being served the same food for dinner that we had for last night's dinner, etc. Also, how the kids are being poorly nourished because of insufficient variety and so forth.
He has decided because I have gotten very overwhelmed in the past that I should not have any more children, so we have -- his decision -- lived as brother and sister most of the time. The last three children have been God inspiring him at certain times, I believe, and consequently we have the three youngest.
He did not consult me on his decision, he simply determined to live as a single man. He made it very clear that I was to leave him alone, not dare approach him, and let him do his spiritual reading in peace. We still sleep in the same bed, though, in the same room. I have struggled unbelievably with temptations I never dreamed I would ever have. It is hard.
I finally realized I had an opportunity to offer the temptations to God and any merit I may gain from successfully fighting them off (and I have to admit in my shame I haven't always been successful) to God for the perseverance of priests in their vow of celibacy (that decision to do that was very consoling and made them a LOT easier to bear, but still...) I pray a lot for priestly vocations for one or more or even all of my sons, so I figured maybe God is asking this of me so that we can partake of this grace...
I also realized if we were to have more children then God would inspire my husband at the right time. And He did...with the last three He worked on my husband's heart to find me attractive at just the right time, whereupon I got pregnant on those occasions.
But I get very weak. I find myself in great need of prayers and folks to "hold my hand" when the going gets tough.
I wish to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.
My dear dear girl,
ReplyDeleteThe very first thing you must do,for your sanity and for the sake of your husband, is to go to a local priest - one you think you can trust- and tell him your story and ask for his guidance. Your husband seems to seriously misunderstand the married vocation, and from this perspective, knowing only what you've told me and no more, I am seriously wondering if mental health is not an issue. You need the counsel and the grace and the strength of having someone close to you to help guide you, and someone with authority in the faith to help you get past the serious issues your husband is throwing at you... This situation is not a normal way to live a marriage and has serious problems with it. I think the Lord wants this 'resolved', not just you learning how to over come 'temptations', which are probably normal wifely feelings... I beg you, please please please, speak clearly and fully to a priest... I am praying for you. Keep in touch.
Holly
I am the anonymous who commented about the possibility of abstaining during only part of the fertile period. Sorry to make it confusing, but I do prefer to remain anonymous since this is so personal! I'm just returning to this conversation and am glad to see so many comments. God bless you, most recent anonymous--I pray a priest will be able to help you and your husband and that God will pour out fresh grace on your marriage.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to ask more questions about NFP. Holly, you wrote:
"If pregnancy needs to be delayed, i don't think partial use of NFP is the answer..."
I agree--I did not mean to recommend this for cases where pregnancy *needs* to be delayed. You also wrote:
"Secondly, it is not only medical reasons why NFP can be legitimate - it can be for serious financial issues, personal or psychological issues, among other things, and it could be Mummy needs a bit of time to adjust given her other responsibilities. The main criteria, in my understanding, is the couple determines a 'real need' and that this is of a fairly serious nature as opposed to whim or convenience, and that the 'couple' is the party to discern this, which makes it a very personal decision, not open to criticism from others."
Please tell me more. Do you mean that using "partial NFP" as I called it could be wrong b/c a couple should normally only use any avoidance if there is a serious reason, and that what I was mentioning sounded like a response to whim/convenience? I know you are saying this is personal and that we should not judge each other, but I would still really love to have your perspective.
More on my specific situation: we have used fertility awareness in this way to give a little more space between our children. I still have many more years till I reach when most women lose their fertility, and we truly want many children and a large family; I am healthy and have had healthy pregnancies so far, our marriage and finances are in a fairly good state, etc. We have no serious reason such as those you mentioned to avoid pregnancy at all.
We do what I described as partial NFP because I have gotten pregnant each and every time we have ever had sex on day 14 or 15 of my cycle, and I also start cycling again 3 months after birth, though I do ecological breastfeeding. It seems to us that if we didn't practice any avoidance at all we would have a new baby about every year. Theoretically I could have 18 children in this manner before hitting menopause. Other women in my family have gotten pregnant on their first cycle of trying even in their early 40s. I don't think I would really have 18 children--I think I would get to some certain number and start to fall apart, and then have to start practicing NFP for the more serious reasons you mentioned! But for now, it is indeed true that my husband and I are using NFP after a fashion to avoid pregnancy even though we do NOT have a "real need" to wait. So is this a whim or a matter of convenience to practice a moderate degree of abstinence during fertility now to create more spacing between pregnancies? I deeply desire NOT to use NFP in a way that falls into the contraceptive mentality, and your reply made me think that you thought what I suggested was on the wrong track. Thank you Holly--I really hope you see this and have time to respond! I don't want to cut off grace in my marriage or not close doors the Lord wants to be open!
First off -
ReplyDeleteNFP can be used as a tool to postpone or achieve pregnancy - so it has a negative (preventative) function and a positive (creative) function. And both of these are ways to co-operate with God's Will to wait, responsibly, for the birth of another child, or to discern God's desire to send another child and actively and consciously cooperate with him. As a result, NFP can be used, in the fullness of its purposes, all the time, as long as the couple is regularly open to discerning God's Will for their family, based on their circumstances, Church teaching etc.
I think that this idea of discerning "God's Will" is key to your actual question.
The serious reasons a couple may 'avoid' pregnancy do not have to be 'disasterous' in nature - just 'serious': ie: for a real reason! That can include all the things I mentioned above, as well as things like the mother's ability to attend and educate the children she has, feelings of being overwhelmed and needed time to pull things together, work duties, recovery from surgery, etc etc etc.
Where we all need to draw the line between avoiding pregnancy and a contraceptive mentality is, in my opinion, based around the actual active 'discernment of God's Will' as opposed to a whim-based or superficial abstinence during fertility with no discerned reason.
Philip and I always discerned every 6 months about whether it was time for another child or not. That way, we did not tend to lose track of the mission of parenting inherent in the married vocation, nor did we tend to lose track of time and NFP ourselves out of having a family.
I would suggest that, if you and your husband discern valid reasons for postponing pregnancy, then do so. But only for a limited period of time, whereupon you can return to the discernment process and see what God is asking you. This should be a cycle of discernment.
If in fact , in your own conscience, there are no really good reasons for postponing pregnancy, then I would suggest you begin to look at being more open to life, as this is a central purpose of the marriage vocation and God loves generous couples who strive to fulfill his calling to them.
Additionally, with your next child, you would soon find yourself with a serious reason for postponing pregnancy for a while - for nursing, your health, adjustment of the family, etc - which would limit 18 children by menopause! :-) Be not afraid!
Does this help?
AN IMPORTANT WORD ABOUT HUSBANDS:
ReplyDeleteSome of you are struggling terribly with marriage issues, and I am so sorry to hear that! I can speak from experience, so please listen to this advice........
Your husband's soul is in your hands, you two are one person in the sight of God. If he is having a spiritual problem, you must storm heaven on his behalf!! Not in any particular request (Dear God, please make him open to more children) but for his peace and love. I have seen this in my own husband. We have been through alot in the last couple of years. Instead of running to God, he ran from Him. He was in an awful place spiritually and it resulted in him being very difficult to be around. I started praying Rosaries for him, asking for St Joseph's intercession, etc... After some time, he ended up attending a local Catholic Men's Conference with a friend (unenthusiastically) and had a true conversion experience!!!! He went to Confession and said that he physically felt a weight lift off of him!! I have seen a major change in his dispositon toward me and the children. He was worried that this may be a temporary feeling so we have begun a maintenance plan-- The Family Rosary!! He even has a Scapular on!
The point of sharing this is to let you know that God can change a hardened heart, but you must ask Him to do it! A change in your husband's heart will change his behavior and attitudes toward NFP and the chaos in our large families.
Another important thing to understand is WHY we are in a Sacramental Marriage in the first place; God's grace flows into a marriage through that physical union!! If your husband is rejecting you, he is rejecting that grace. Without that grace, none of us can live the life that we are called to!
A man may seem all "holier than thou" when he is reading and preaching at you, but his heart may not be in the right place. Celibacy is for priets, NOT NOT NOT a married couple!!! We are not called to celibacy. Prudence, when the situation calls for it. But as a married couple in a sacramental union, we are called to enjoy loving each other AS GOD INTENDED!!
Pray for your husbands' hearts and God will take care of the rest!
Thank you Anonymous. I wholeheartedly concur. We have a mission to assist our husbands, and this is key.
ReplyDeleteI am going back to the original post here. I have scanned this long thread and it seems to me that it became very focused on NFP and marriage and not on the demands of homeschooling and just going nuts in a practical way. I have 5 children ages 15 months trough 9 years. I have always wanted to homeschool. SInce I was in highschool and I first heard of it, it has been my dream. I have read extensively, prayed visualized and worked very hard. But I have put my kids back into school 3 times to save my sanity. This most recent time, I put them back in to save my husband's. This results in the most peace in our household, and has saved our marriage. That's a scary thought for me, because we're the types who thought we had a perfect marriage to begin with. With our children in school, the chaos is gone from our lives. We still have plenty of family time, and the children are still very very close to eachother. We are able to focus more deeply on our faith, because we're not chained down by chaos. We're able to get more into literature and the arts because we're not drowning in too much on our plate. The difference in our family is night and day.
ReplyDeleteThere is a strong voice out there in favor of homeschooling. That's beautiful. But I don't see much out there saying it's okay not to homeschool. Homeschooling is not a necessity of our Catholic faith.
I went and spoke to my priest about this when I put my kids back in school this past year. He said he sees this happen all the time in "the homeschool". He sees it have a devastating effect on marriages. He said certainly not all homeschools are this way, but many are. He explained it to me in terms of personal resources. you can determine God's will for you at any given time by examining what you have, and what he's given to you. If you do not have what it takes (including sanity) to homeschool during a certain season, then it's simply not God's will for you. Just like if you can't afford the Catholic schools after examining all your expenses, then God's will for you is the public schools.
I was terrified to put my children into the public schools. But I found them to be a great blessing in our lives. Certainly not perfect, but there are a great many good people working there for the good of the children. And the peace in our home is much more akin to my original vision of homeschooling life than what homeschooling resulted in for us.
I write this after feeling crushed once again by hearing about an ideal homeschool family story on our local Catholic radio station and wondering how I fit into all this orthodox Catholic stuff I feel so held at arms length from due to my inability to homeschool. I called my husband and he said not to get wrapped up in the ideal "brand" of Catholicism, but instead to focus on where God has me and us right now and work out our salvation with what talents, resources, and abilities we have got, not based on what everyone else is doing.
I wanted to encourage the original poster to prioritize her sanity. WIthout that, you can't even approach all the other priorities. Trust in God. We want so much control of everything, but we must just trust in Him, whatever that means for our individual households. (I'm certainly not suggesting going against any teachings of the church, such as the use of contraception. Once you go there, you've stepped outside of God's arena and well within the reach of Satan. Homeschooling is not a teaching of the Church.)
Holly responds:
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% that not all families are called to homeschool, despite what some day. As Scripture tells us, there are many gifts and charisms and as St Paul tells us, we are part of the Mystical Body of Christ, and not all of us are knees - some are toes, some fingers, some brains! It is only logical to assert not all parents are academic teachers and can homeschool , any more than all parents are dentists or doctors or...
The Church has always held parents are the primary educators of their children, but this does not mean that all are called to be the sole means of the academic formation of their children. It means parents are responsible to oversee the faith and moral education of their children first and foremost as well as the other aspects of education.
This means though, that parents have the legitimate right to delegate to competent others those tasks which they do not feel qualified to do themselves - and here, the school works 'for' the parent, by delegation.
Families who do not homeschool remain perfectly capable of succeeding in their primary vocation to educate their children - keeping in mind that education is a lot broader term than academics. We mustn't allow any form of homeschool-snobbery to illegitimately condemn those families who do not choose this route.
Not all are called to homeschool, and this last responder is correct - there is no Catholic obligation to homeschool. For those who can, and for those who feel called, let them do so. For those who realize they cannot - they have the complete right, and duty, to ensure that their children are educated by the means available in a suitable situation. So for some, given their own limitations and incapacities, they would have a moral duty to send their children to school. This is a discernment of the couple, as personal and private as the decision to do NFP. No one has any right to judge here, nor should anyone feel judged.
That means, for families who send their children to a school, they would thus be required to oversee that the efforts of the school are indeed helping their children, not harming. Parents remain 'primary' - ie: responsible for - the holistic education of their children. And as the Church teaches (in the Charter of Rights of the Family, I believe), possess the right to choose the means that best suit their circumstances.
Bravo to you and your family for being wise in your discernment and reading the 'signs' of your vocational circumstances.
Oh well, removed that last because it sounded a little self-centered. I just wanted to say thank you for saying all that you said so well, Holly. I am enjoying reading your book for the second time.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to point out to all those who are in favor of natural family planning which does have it's place and purpose.. The Church only allows one to use it for the sake of postponing pregnancy in extreme cases. Such having several special needs children and having the genetics to have more special needs children, the mother has a very serious illness that another pregnancy could be fatal for her and the last reason is that your family is in very real poverty and your husband lost his job sort of thing. These are the ONLY grounds in which we are allowed to use NFP in the Church but even WITH a very serious reason to use NFP you still need to get the permission of a priest to practice it. So many teachers of NFP fail to teach this very important part of NFP. So that most Catholics think it is "Church approved Birth control" I encourage all of you to dig deeper and find out what the Church truly has to say about it.
ReplyDeleteWith the Kindest of Intentions,
Mrs. S
I am not sure I agree with you Mrs S.
ReplyDeleteThe decision to use Natural Family Planning in order to discern God's intent for one's family and assess the circumstances and their seriousness that permit or prohibit -temporarily- another pregnancy, are between the couple and God, always open to 'counsel' from the priest, but not 'permission' from the priest.
Check it out
Holly