Help
With Your Rule
On Modest Dressing for Mom...
Dear Holly,
I am currently in RCIA (to be received fully into the church in a couple of months), in a rather liberal church - more so than I had realized when I started my classes. As a protestant, I was exposed to and studies in depth teachings about modest dress / dresses only / head coverings. Then, as I began the transistion to the Catholic church, I had the impression that all that 'super modesty stuff' was just from those 'protestant ultraconservatives'. After all, I have seen all manner of attire going to Mass. Maybe not quite swimsuits, but certainly some very short skirts/shorts, rather revealing cleavage, etc. Even many of those serving as EM's don't dress up. Therefore, I have had no problem wearing shorts and jeans as my regular attire, including jeans to Mass.
Lately, however, with an eight year daughter beginning to have a definite interest in clothes, the Lord has been convicting me of the need evaluate my wardrobe. In doing some research I was amazed to find out that the Church really has discussed modesty - quite a bit actually - in some of the earlier writings. I guess nowadays there are more pressing matters, I don't know. However, not that long ago the Church definitely promoted modest and feminine dress for women. St. Padre Pio wouldn't give absolution to women wearing pants or an immodest dress, according to www.catholicplanet.com in an article about women's dress. This website strongly expresses the idea that women should generally wear dresses and skirts as a matter of routine, based on Scripture, and also discusses head coverings. This site, along with a couple of others I have looked at, do not seem to look at dresses as simply a "cultural thing" but a thing based on Scriptural teachings.
What is your opinion of this matter of dress? While I fully admit to being more comfortable in shorts and jeans, I don't want to be dressing in a matter that the Church would not accept as appropriate. Certainly I don't want to model inappropriate dress in front of my children! Please understand - I never wear cleavage showing outfits or short skirts anyhow. But, shorts that show thighs, or jeans - on a regular basis. Some would say that I am being immodest, which is quite painful to hear. However, if I were to wear the shapeless long long jumpers worn by some my hubby would have a fit. I tried it once...... his opinion was clear shall we say........
Labels: 2nd P Person, 4th P Parent
posted by Holly at 10:00 AM
12 Comments:
I am glad you asked for my 'opinion' and I will give it to you.
I think modesty is 'relative' - let me explain.
What I wear on the beach and what I wear at Mass and what I wear in my bedroom and what I wear in the garden on a hot summer day and what I wear to homeschool or to go shopping are all different.
Circumstances to a large extent dictate the boundaries of modesty. A formal dress showing mild cleavage is not necessarily inappropriate at a very formal dinner. Shorts and a tank top while weeding in the garden is not inappropriate either.
So, it depends.
If you are becoming uncomfortable with what you wear to church - the Lord is probably telling you something. A nice skirt OR a nice pant suit (some type of more formal dress-up outfit ) is a very good idea for Mass - not only for modesty's sake, but as a sign of reverence for the Lord's presence. Kids know the Mass is important because Mummy dresses up.
For me, I do wear jeans to daily Mass, as this is my normal at-home attire, but I dress up on the Sunday Mass to suit the more formal Mass.
Secondly though, in addition to circumstance, is what our heart tells us. If we are uncomfortable, or fear our witness-factor is compromised - well, we 'know' in our heart whether our dress is good or is being done for more sensuous reasons. We must be true to our hearts.
We must also think of others. Men can have a very difficult time watching a woman who is dressed less fully. I think short shorts and tank tops are not helpful to the man behind us who is trying to pray, faced with all that flesh!
But - Avoid Extremes! I don't think that the opposite of showing gobs of cleavage is a blouse that looks like a box! There is moderate clothing available out there.
"Would I wear this in front of the Pope?" is a good internal guide to modesty.
And lastly -
We are women. Women have shape and form and this is beautiful. We are not called to hide our femininity in the name of modesty. I think it is our hearts which tell us if we are crossing a line.
Thank you for your comments, I shall ponder them. You remarked about "what would I wear in front of the Pope?" Visiting St. Peter's Basicila means no shorts, mini skirts or uncovered shoulders.
It is of great interest to me that Our Lady of Fatima is reported to have said that certain fashions would be introduced that would offend her Son very much. Most certainly all of us want to avoid clothing that offends our blessed Lord!!!
At this point I am convicted about the need to make some changes in my wardrobe. I realize that concern about the attire of woman today is nothing new, but I do wish that all Christian Catholic women would consider this topic. I have already had the experience watching of my son "get an eyeful" at church, enough that I blushed for the lady and attempted to redirect my son's attention.
Thank you again for your time.
Actually, I did not mean "What would the Vatican permit you to wear inside the Vatican" when I made the statement about refering to the Pope.
Far from it, actually. Their rules are not meant to define normal attire in every day life, but just what is worn in the Vatican when you visit, and I do not for a moment believe, nor do I believe the church teaches, that bare shoulders or shorts are immoral.
I DID mean that, if you ran into the Pope one day on the street, would you be embarrassed by what you were wearing? If the Pope met me while I was weeding the garden in a tank top and shorts, I would not feel indecent - but if he met me in church, I would.
What I am trying to say is that it is not "external" rules which will answer this question most effectively, but an attentiveness to your interior awareness as different circumstances need different approaches.
Has anyone read: Dressing With Dignity? It is a great book on modesty. It is well documented. And explains why we need to be modest. Very inspiring.
Yes, I HAVE read Dressing With Dignity!!! (I am the original poster). It is extremely interesting, and makes a strong case for very modest dressing - no pants. I am not the best at critical reading though, and am not sure if all of her arguments are as solid as they first seem. Does that make sense? I know that some have critiqued the idea of no pants because 'the lines draw the eye to private areas' (obviously I am hugely condensing material here).
Sigh... to dress in a certain way just because most of society does it surely isn't the answer. To refuse to modernize because
"that's how it was done back in the day" is just as wrong.
I once read a comment, long ago, that has stuck with me for many years. If little bathing suits are not immodest (and therefore fine for Christian women to wear), then there is no such thing as immodesty. After all, the next step would be to completely reveal private areas. Same thing with shorts - if shorts (not the long walking length kind, but definite shorts) are not immodest, what is? Another inch less fabric and you are seeing cheeks. (I highly doubt anyone here is wearing shorts THAT short!)
The verses in Isaiah 47: 2-3 comment that baring the thighs is showing nakedness - written to virgin daughter Babylon. Is that then God's standard of nakedness? If so, I have some things to discuss in the confessional, so I am not pointing fingers at anyone but myself. I hope everyone that reads this post knows that!!! I am not going around in dresses only, but have felt convicted to make some changes in how I had been dressing. Obviously in our culture thighs are not considered to be "naked" - Is that how our God looks at the matter also? After all, we are called to please God, not men.
I would LOVE to hear comments from anyone else that has read Dressing with Diginty (by Colleen Hammond). Agree or disagree with her, let me know.
Thank you!
Please, let it be known, that I do not in any way believe modesty is synonomous with dresses-only for women. I think this is extremist and not balanced. Not only that, but it is not, nor will it ever be, Catholic teaching.
Two other ideas also have influenced me.
First, standards are different in different locales. I grew up in Hawaii, but my standards changed when I moved to a colder climate where people typically wear more clothing.
Second, and more importantly, are we, by our dress, causing others to have sinful thoughts? It wasn't so long ago that a visible ankle was unheard of and men would perhaps want to sneak a peek. Of course, they are used to seeing much more now. Yet, I don't want to be looked at this way.
It seems like Holly's comfort guideline is a good one. We do need to nurture our conscience and pay attention to it.
My best friend read "Dressing with Dignity" and she bought ten copies to sell to others and a lending copy too because she thought it was an very good explanation of modesty! I haven't had a chance to read it yet. However, I would suggest - get a copy of Pope Pius XIIs "Marylike Standards of Modesty". It will serve as a good guide for you and your daughter. Always better to err on the side of caution when it comes to modesty. If we make a man sin mortally that sin is quite possibly on our soul as well as his. Culture and custom don't provide much excuse. Our society does not have Catholic culture and custom and unfortunately even conscience is not much of a guide. Wasn't it St Paul who said that if our conscience doesn't accuse us we are not hereby justified? Most of us unfortunately have been influenced by the society we live in, whether or not we realise it. People 200 years ago would have blushed to been seen in just a pair of pants yet women now can dress like prostitutes without hardly a second thought. Yes, our consciences are slowly being warped. Our Lady of Fatima said that fashions would come which would very much offend Our Lord. She came from Heaven to warn us about this!!! Let us sit up and take notice!!! See the sad little face of Jacinta Marto. Our Lady said at Fatima that most souls go to Hell because of the sins of the flesh!!! There is no getting out of Hell once someone goes there. A good priest once said to us on retreat - meditate on these 2 words ALWAYS and NEVER. Those in Hell shall always be there. They shall never leave. It is not worth taking risks with modesty as it may be gambling with our salvation, that of our children, or those around us. Finally one of the popes (can't recall which one right now) said that women would blush with shame if they knew the sins they cause others to commit by the way they dress when they are indecent. This was written in an era where people normally dressed very modestly. Pray, ask Our Lady to guide you, she will not fail you if you try to please her.
Thank you, Beth! So beautifully put!! I've read Dressing with Dignity, Immodesty: Satan's Virtue, and "Those Who Serve God Must Not Follow the Fashions." At my church, we have several fully convicted of the importance of modesty. Six of us are able to meet and discuss this issue in our lives and very culture. At the same time, we are discovering TRUE womanhood! Our hearts ache for these mothers and daughters at our church who are so misled. We have so many ideas to reach out to them and spread the Good News!
And you know, when Dressing with Dignity has been handed out by various people, the responses vary. We've know some nonhomeschooling good Catholics (but who struggle with modernity) completely reject and feel offended by the idea of NO PANTS. They can't comprehend it. It is true we have been raised in this culture and full of biased attitudes, it goes deep for us all, I think. My change in dress has been a gradual change over the past 10 years. Only 6 years ago I wore my tight jeans to my class reunion!! No, I realize that I cannot in good conscience where jeans again and my dockers were given to good will although should I have burned them as some suggest?:) It only took me in my adult years to realize that the upperclassmen in highschool that grabbed my but in 9th grade, had quite an invition by my naive dressing of snug jeans!! No one told me. In fact, my family wears snug jeans to this day. Now had I been appropriately dressed in a long skirt I believe I would have been respected and attention directed away from me. How much attention I've recieved in my mild immodest dress. Now, I feel so respected and not only do men open the door for me, but ladies, too! There is just something about a very modestly dressed woman. To me, it says, I am a true woman with great dignity and if you need me I am hear to nurture you and mother you. If I had an emergency in the store I would go right to a dignified lady like that! With a choice, I would not go to the lady in pants who has obviously (to me) not put all of her energies into sacrificing for the sake of the kingdom of God!
In all honesty, to Bridget, I cannot imagine anyone judging a woman's character on whether she was wearing pants or a dress. This world has enough sin without inventing new and false sins.
That is not to say there isn't a beauty to certain styles of dress and I most certainly encourage women to dress in a modest fashion. But modesty does *not* require a woman to wear a dress only, and avoid pants, and such 'teaching' is simply not Catholic, nor Christian.
If we are going to take responsibility here for enticing others by wearing snug pants, who is responsible when the daughter of a single-Mother has to wear the skirt that was nicely angled below her knees for a few weeks more because she doesn't have the extra 12$ in her budget to return to the thrift store for replacements?
God is not concerned with what is on a man's body, yet his heart. Why should the Church be worried about this? If we are of Christ, can we not fight temptations all around us the same as He defeated the devil himself?
I understand the rationale that explains what happens when women wear tight pants and revealing attire, but if we divert the blame for these sins, man will never completely overcome...
wearing dresses instead of pants as a sacrifice is still on the surface.. "feeding His sheep"-, now we're talking...
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